An engineer has told an employment tribunal she changed the “pattern” of toilets she would use at her defence company workplace in response to trans colleagues being able to access female facilities.
Maria Kelly also said a suggestion she would leak the name of trans colleagues as part of a crowdfunder for her legal action was “shocking” and something she would never do.
She has lodged a complaint alleging harassment, direct and indirect discrimination against her employer Leonardo UK at its facility in Edinburgh.
Ms Kelly, people and capability lead for the aerospace defence company, had earlier told the employment tribunal that she began using a “secret toilet” at her workplace after encountering a transgender colleague in a female bathroom.
As the tribunal continued on Thursday, Ms Kelly was cross-examined by Susanne Tanner KC, representing Leonardo.
Ms Tanner asked her why she had not mentioned the March 2023 incident with the transgender colleague – known as person B – when she lodged a grievance with the company.
Ms Kelly said she wanted to understand the company’s policy on access to toilets, telling the tribunal: “I knew that I had shared a toilet with a male.
“I didn’t mention any names because it wasn’t about an individual.”
Ms Tanner said mentioning a name is different from mentioning an incident, saying at no point in the appeal did Ms Kelly mention any incident with a trans colleague.
Ms Kelly, who has worked at Leonardo for more than 18 years, said she accepted it was not included in the minutes of her grievance meetings.
The KC for Leonardo UK also said Ms Kelly’s grievance had not been upheld, but the company had agreed to make amendments to its toilet facilities in the wake of her complaints.
The tribunal also heard about an exchange of letters between Ms Kelly’s lawyers and the company’s general counsel, as she sought to progress her concerns about access to the toilet facilities.
Ms Tanner said one of Ms Kelly’s legal letters referred to the possibility of crowdfunding her legal action and seeking publicity, which might lead to the trans individuals becoming “part of the story”.
The KC asked her: “Do you accept that there was a concern about the identities becoming part of the story?”
She responded: “I understand there was a concern about the identities becoming part of the story… there was no suggestion there was any names coming from me.”
She added later: “To suggest that I would leak names is pretty shocking.”
Employment judge Michelle Sutherland also asked further questions of Ms Kelly during the hearing in Edinburgh.
Referring to earlier evidence, the judge asked Ms Kelly about which toilets she would use in the workplace.
Ms Kelly said: “After the day when a trans-identifying male colleague went into the loos – yes there was a change in pattern.
“I became aware any activity could be witnessed by male colleagues.”
She said she would use what she called the “secret squirrel” toilets as a place of “refuge”.
During her evidence on Wednesday, she said that as someone who suffers heavy periods, the toilets were an important place of privacy for her.
In the early afternoon the tribunal also heard evidence from Leonardo’s vice-president of people shared services, Andrew Letton.
He described the nature of the defence company’s policies on diversity, saying: “We have got an inclusive culture in the business. We’ve invested heavily in creating this environment.”
The tribunal continues.
